Fierce debate over claim that ANC has ‘lost God’

TO SAY the ANC was part of a global anti-Christ movement and had “lost God” was like saying the 11 million who voted the party into power had lost their minds.

This is according to Eastern Cape ANC chaplain Bishop Andile Mbethe, who was defending the party against claims by former member Mkhangeli Matomela that the ANC has eroded morally and lost its Christian values.

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CONTROVERSIAL: Mkhangeli Matomela’s ‘ANC is the anti-Christ’ claim was thoroughly debated at the Dispatch Dialogues on Tuesday
Picture: MARK ANDREWS

 

Mbethe, the province’s SA Council of Churches (SACC) president, was speaking at the Dispatch Dialogues, hosted in conjunction with the University of Fort Hare on Tuesday.

Mbethe said so-called revelations of the emergence of dark forces or agendas of secret societies that are said to be out to take over the world was not a cause for panic in either the ANC or the SACC.

“To suggest that we’ve lost God, was tantamount to saying we’ve lost our mind,” said Mbethe. “As the guardian of these forces, I am not panicking. The ANC has not survived 100 years for nothing. It is because God is with us.

“There is no evidence that the ANC has lost God. If we had, we would basically be living in darkness,” said Mbethe, who also said God was “not a Christian”, but God Almighty who was god of all.

Mbethe drew criticism from some when he said God was neither a he nor a she, adding that God reminded him more of his mother than his father.

“God, being God, cannot get lost. We can go astray but God cannot abandon us,” he said.

Matomela, who proved to have many sympathisers on the night, accused his former political home of being part of a “Lucifer agenda” leading South Africa into a “satanic state” where abortion, prostitution, homosexuality and other social ills were legislated under their watch.

Matomela based his argument on Alice Bailey’s controversial New Age Movement’s 10-point charter whose purpose is to “redeem the nations of Christian tradition”.

“Today you wonder why our governments are legislating laws contrary to the Bible. It is a process of implementing the plan, a strategy of the New Age Movement to fulfil its ultimate goal to establish one world government, economic system and world religion.

“Today the strategy almost in its entirety has been adopted by the United Nations and a lot of it is already law in many nations, including South Africa,” Matomela said.

He acknowledged the ANC was founded on Christian values and South Africa was liberated through “a miracle from God”. “This country was liberated by the grace of God.

“However when we removed the verse ‘Holy Spirit come down and revive us’ from our national anthem, that’s when we lost God. We rejected the Holy Spirit and we exposed ourselves to forces of darkness,” Matomela said.

He called on the ANC to publicly disassociate itself from Bailey’s charter, warning “if you do not, God and the South African people will reject you”. The Dispatch polled the more than capacity audience at the dialogue, asking the question: “Has the ANC lost God?”

The results vastly outnumbered the people in attendance and were deemed unreliable.

For the first time, Premier Noxolo Kiviet was among those who attended the Dialogue.

22 COMMENTS

  1. The ANC has not survived 100 years for nothing. It is because God is with us.

    Oh yeah…two childish men sprouting absolute make believe. Shut it & get proper jobs.

  2. According to the Bible, we should love justice, show mercy, care for the widows and orphans (i.e the most vulnerable members of society) and walk humbly in the sight of God.

    Jesus very clearly says that we will know the tree by it’s fruit. Based on that, neither participant in the debate can claim to be Christian.

  3. The statement that say the ANC will rule until Jesus Christ comes, should be acknowledged as that:

    1. The ANC believe in God
    and
    2. That the ANC believes in the Second Coming.

    Any other interpretation is akin to saying that apartheid is justified biblically.

    • The Sanhedrin also believed in God. That didn’t stop them from crucifying Jesus. I think it is James who says “You believe? What of it? Even the demons believe … and tremble.”

      If the ANC, with it’s corruption, theft, nepotism and moral decay can call itself Christian, then why cant apartheid be justified Biblically? Just 20 years ago, it was.

      “You will be judged according to the standards by which you judge others.” – Jesus

      • Dave Rankin you are incorrect. The Sanhedrin did not have the power to crucify Jesus. Only the Roman Governor had the power to put a man to death. Pontius Pilate as Governor of JUdea in Christ’s time, was therefore the person who ordered Jesus put to death. The Sanhedrin during its seventy years of Judaic rule condemned only 1 man to death (reason unknown to me but certainly was not Jesus Christ) & as such was known as :the hanging Sanhedrin.

        • Myron Robinson. While you are correct on the power to execute, the Sanhedrin did the arranging – according to the Gospels – and later organised the stoning of Stephen according to Acts.

          I AM NOT trying to restart the pogroms which are, to say the least, very unChristian.

          MY POINT to Patrick Sekoe is that claiming to believe in God proves nothing and it is how you live your life and treat other people that really matters. The prophets of the Old Testament and the writers of the New Testament all agree on that often neglected point.

          We could get into some involved and interesting discussion on the historical reality of Jesus, the validity of the Bible and why some of the most evil people on Earth are very religious; but that would be going a way off the track of this topic.

          Shalom.

    • Patrick you misinterpreted Zuma’s sattement. The ANC will rule until the Mesiah comes because the momemnt that the ANC power base is threatened it will act like that thug Mugabe & merely annul the elections & seize power. A Party that can murder 38 of its own supporters at Marikana in cold blood & does not have even minister or senior official resign certainly can claim no moral high ground.

    • Even Titanic believed in God when they said, Even God cannot sink the Ship. And Mandela believed in God when he said, The day he died the first thing he will do will be to join ANC in heaven. The lesson one must learn is, you don’t talk publicly about heavenly things glorifying your own. You mention God and any heavenly things, only when you do so with the purpose of glorifying God.

  4. The 11 million who voted for the ANC have, indeed, lost their minds! How can you vote for a party, under current leadership, that is led by someone who is deemed to be and appears to be corrupt in nature. They’ve really lost their minds!

    • I am not sure that the 11 million had lost their minds, they had high hopes, but some realised that they were wrong, or the ANC has changed. The people that I am sure have lost their minds, 11 Million or not, are those that are voting for it now, including the Bishop Mbethe..

  5. We may try to defend the actions of the ANC but it is clear that it has lost God. Instead of defending I suggest that the look back and try to solve the problems and correct where they have wronged. I am not a KGM member but share the same sentiments with KGM even long before they. I am disappointed by the Bishop’s statements when defending it.

  6. To Mr M.Matomela I wish to say well done you are the only one that is truly awake to what is happening in South Africa to the rest of the sheeple in our country try reading some books ABOUT WHATS REALLY HAPPENING IN THE WORLD TODAY. Firstly there is a world agenda which is called Agenda 21 look it up ! The 1% of the worlds population are your Globalists and they control all the money and power in the world they belong to the most secretive of societies called the skull and bones ! look it up ! they in turn are a bunch of narcissistic eugenisists that believe in depopulating the earth and to kill all Christians! Read whats happening in Egypt Syria and wherever there is war they are targeting all the Christians. Read the books by Us national advisor Z.Brzezinski who is the New world Architect and biggest Globalist – his quote – Its easier to kill a million people than to control a million people. how do they do that with a soft kill – how look up SV40 and read the book Dr Marys Monkey . All these globalists are followers of the occultist Helena Blavatsky who wrote Isis unveiled and the Secret doctrine who believe Lucifer is the one true God and they await for his return to walk the earth again. Her greatest student was Hitler !!! You carry on watching your sport on tv and playing on your iphone the government will look after you don’t worry my sheep go back to sleep!

    • Eri you are very right. This we even see in the church. It s all about ecumenism. Churches, governments and organisations such as united nations are one. We are not fooled. The sad thing is that South Africans are hungry for the Lord but are gullible. They don’t read and have no clue of the Bible just waiting for these satanists to feed them rubbish from hell

  7. The 11 Million people may not have all lost their minds, but those who still vote for the ANC now, surely they have. In fact it is not impossible for 11 Million people to loose their minds, its not a taboo. The Bible says “the road to heaven is narrower than the one to hell. I am very disappointed by the Bishop, If I was in his church, I would liv like yesterday. He does not know that God is referred to as He, capital H. Has the ANC lost God?. Yes Long time ago, there is no trace of Godliness in the ANC. From the time Nelson Mandela said he will look for ANC offices in heaven the day he died, in fact that was when I lost hope in Mandela himself and his corrupt, greedy little ANC. The ANC is literary more evil than the devil itself. Perhaps Rev/Bishop Mbethe, will lead them in their way to hell.

  8. i think that the very nature of of christianity is questionable, and just because you think that you re on God’s side it would be better to to really strengthen your faith on him alone and not what you told by individuals. after all it was the church that brought the bible to us humans of very whom were part of the gorvenment, or were once the gorvenment until they change after a new system was introduced that would control people for ever. ” gorvenance” oh no they could nt get enough from tidings and decided to create a tax system. ironicly wich the church does nt pay a cent towards. anti-christ are right next you than you think, i mean they ve always been there. you either worship them religiously or politically. its one in the same actually.

  9. The reality is that the ANC never knew God or He knew them from its inception nor any of its members. And that goes even for all the political parties in SA. I would even include all the Christian Churches in this bucket, for they have lost the Light and the Spirit of God has long time departed them. This is why SA has lost its way and become a lawless country where life is not respected (all races).

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